Jul 11, 2025·2 replies
Smacked VoodooY'all really just be typing any dumbass s*** man
this isnt a controversial thing its factually correct. you cant judge something that developed completely independant of another thing with dif values by the metrics of that other hting. its erasure to just lump it in with the more popular american thing that reminds you of it
Jul 11, 2025·1 replyAndre Jaquet this isnt a controversial thing its factually correct. you cant judge something that developed completely independant of another thing with dif values by the metrics of that other hting. its erasure to just lump it in with the more popular american thing that reminds you of itThe only difference between the two is you replacing rapping or “MCing” over a house or disco beat to a jungle or garage beat because that’s what they had over there for them to rap over
- Jul 11, 2025·1 reply
SantiegoToasting is just Jamaican niggas rapping
Trust me, y'all be making it deeper than it need to be
nah to say toasting is just jamaicans rapping is revisionist, its a distinctly different thing with a dif history that predated rapping and i feel like its a distinctly ignorant american way of washing other people's history and culture to claim as their own.
rapping took influence from toasting, the announcements made by the DJ in block parties, 60s black poetry, vocal styles in blues & jazz, and playing the dozens. its distinctly an american black creation integrating aspects from immigrant communities.
like is yellowman a rapper?
this is rapping? we putting him in goat discussions?
toasting comes from a completely dif lineage. you know what else developed from toasting? ska, reggae, dub, grime and hip hop
the MCing in grime comes DIRECTLY from british carribean immigrants and its way closer to what was happening in jamaica at the time and the british electronic scene than hip hop.
no grime MC at the time would call themselves a rapper
- Jul 11, 2025·1 replyAndre Jaquet this isnt a controversial thing its factually correct. you cant judge something that developed completely independant of another thing with dif values by the metrics of that other hting. its erasure to just lump it in with the more popular american thing that reminds you of it
- Jul 11, 2025
Like bro how is what Skepta and Joyner Lucas about to do a “clash” and not a “battle”. It’s essentially the same thing
- Jul 11, 2025·1 replyFree YoungBoy
The only difference between the two is you replacing rapping or “MCing” over a house or disco beat to a jungle or garage beat because that’s what they had over there for them to rap over
no the difference between the two is the entire lineage, influence, and intention. hip hop also has electronic origins but it clearly took influence from many subgenres outside of electronic music to become its own genre. it used electronic techniques in specific contexts and fused them with the influence from different black american history & music such as school games & what people's parents listened to to create its own movement and subgenre. DJs used break beats from disco and remixed them in an anti disco movement, vocalists took inspiration from things i said alongside gil scot heron etc.
The difference here is grime explicitly IS an electronic subgenre, music wise. the beats dont have to be rapped on, grime was a type of electronic music that the MCs continued to rap over, a big part of grime is literally just instrumental. the vocal style is made to make people dance, unlike rapping which takes influence from political speeches and african american history. hence why they sound so different. an american rapper on a grime beat and a grime MC on a regular beat sound really weird
Grime was made and was dance music essentially and while there are people like dizzee who had records that were more hip hop influenced, the difference is grime is electronic dance music and the vocal style complements that. if a regular rapper just took a grime instrumental and rapped on it it still wouldnt be grime because hes RAPPING.
- Jul 11, 2025!https://youtu.be/jSf6mo1Iojo?si=IdZPESzcFHg0pTjmSmacked Voodoo
so Lady G is a rapper right like its a good convo to put slick rick against Lady G
- Jul 11, 2025·1 replyAndre Jaquet
no the difference between the two is the entire lineage, influence, and intention. hip hop also has electronic origins but it clearly took influence from many subgenres outside of electronic music to become its own genre. it used electronic techniques in specific contexts and fused them with the influence from different black american history & music such as school games & what people's parents listened to to create its own movement and subgenre. DJs used break beats from disco and remixed them in an anti disco movement, vocalists took inspiration from things i said alongside gil scot heron etc.
The difference here is grime explicitly IS an electronic subgenre, music wise. the beats dont have to be rapped on, grime was a type of electronic music that the MCs continued to rap over, a big part of grime is literally just instrumental. the vocal style is made to make people dance, unlike rapping which takes influence from political speeches and african american history. hence why they sound so different. an american rapper on a grime beat and a grime MC on a regular beat sound really weird
Grime was made and was dance music essentially and while there are people like dizzee who had records that were more hip hop influenced, the difference is grime is electronic dance music and the vocal style complements that. if a regular rapper just took a grime instrumental and rapped on it it still wouldnt be grime because hes RAPPING.
!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pxk-EfNQxYhip hop also has electronic origins but it clearly took influence from many subgenres outside of electronic music to become its own genre. it used electronic techniques in specific contexts and fused them with the influence from different black american history & music such as school games & what people's parents listened to to create its own movement and subgenre.
This is exactly what is happening with Grime. They are just not at the same point in their development because one started in the late 70s/early 80s and one started in the late 90s/early 2000s
They have different vocal styles and flows and s*** like that because the accent and the beats they rap on lends itself to different styles. You can say the same about southern rappers vs east coast rappers, but not to that same extent.
And I’m not even tryna say grime is hip hop. I’m specifically saying a clash and a battle are the same s***
- Jul 11, 2025·2 repliesAndre Jaquet
nah to say toasting is just jamaicans rapping is revisionist, its a distinctly different thing with a dif history that predated rapping and i feel like its a distinctly ignorant american way of washing other people's history and culture to claim as their own.
rapping took influence from toasting, the announcements made by the DJ in block parties, 60s black poetry, vocal styles in blues & jazz, and playing the dozens. its distinctly an american black creation integrating aspects from immigrant communities.
like is yellowman a rapper?
!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11S5QPjx3uUthis is rapping? we putting him in goat discussions?
toasting comes from a completely dif lineage. you know what else developed from toasting? ska, reggae, dub, grime and hip hop
the MCing in grime comes DIRECTLY from british carribean immigrants and its way closer to what was happening in jamaica at the time and the british electronic scene than hip hop.
no grime MC at the time would call themselves a rapper
Y'all are highly overcomplicating this, yet looking over the answer. You think any of those Caribbeans traveled between continent?
- Jul 11, 2025·1 replyFree YoungBoy
hip hop also has electronic origins but it clearly took influence from many subgenres outside of electronic music to become its own genre. it used electronic techniques in specific contexts and fused them with the influence from different black american history & music such as school games & what people's parents listened to to create its own movement and subgenre.
This is exactly what is happening with Grime. They are just not at the same point in their development because one started in the late 70s/early 80s and one started in the late 90s/early 2000s
They have different vocal styles and flows and s*** like that because the accent and the beats they rap on lends itself to different styles. You can say the same about southern rappers vs east coast rappers, but not to that same extent.
And I’m not even tryna say grime is hip hop. I’m specifically saying a clash and a battle are the same s***
its not about a point in development,thats what grime is grime is dead now they never intended and still arent going that way to jst assume its going that way is baseless. Wiley was releasing instrumental grime mixes and its its own culture that they are proud of, if you ask any of them back then if they are a rapper they would say no. people's parents in hip hop were listening to marvin gaye, in grime it was yellowman and lady g.
you miss the huge distinction that its not because of what is lended where, its a matter of what we KNOW the influences are and why it is that way, there WERE british rappers at the time roots manuva doesnt make grime. we have had many british rappers, grime is different.
saying a clash and a battle are similar is true but if you look at actual grime clashes and actual rap battles they still arent like actually the same thing you will notice a lot of differences. but yea they are p similar, my point is you cant judge how people MC in grime or the beats in grime by the metrics of a whole other genre and to say it is that genre is innacurate and a bit harmful tbh
- Jul 11, 2025·edited·1 replySantiego
Y'all are highly overcomplicating this, yet looking over the answer. You think any of those Caribbeans traveled between continent?
ya yall r overcomplicating it grime isnt rly hip hop
i dont think i quite understand the question tho - Jul 11, 2025Andre Jaquet· edited
ya yall r overcomplicating it grime isnt rly hip hop
i dont think i quite understand the question thoI know right, niggas egos more important than anything LMAO
- Jul 11, 2025·1 replyAndre Jaquet
its not about a point in development,thats what grime is grime is dead now they never intended and still arent going that way to jst assume its going that way is baseless. Wiley was releasing instrumental grime mixes and its its own culture that they are proud of, if you ask any of them back then if they are a rapper they would say no. people's parents in hip hop were listening to marvin gaye, in grime it was yellowman and lady g.
you miss the huge distinction that its not because of what is lended where, its a matter of what we KNOW the influences are and why it is that way, there WERE british rappers at the time roots manuva doesnt make grime. we have had many british rappers, grime is different.
saying a clash and a battle are similar is true but if you look at actual grime clashes and actual rap battles they still arent like actually the same thing you will notice a lot of differences. but yea they are p similar, my point is you cant judge how people MC in grime or the beats in grime by the metrics of a whole other genre and to say it is that genre is innacurate and a bit harmful tbh
What makes this any different than a battle other than the flow and choice of beat
- Jul 11, 2025·edited·1 replyFree YoungBoy
What makes this any different than a battle other than the flow and choice of beat
!https://youtu.be/JuW6cHWaHgo?si=UOK1DA2jNL4wmXDEhe says around here 30x in the first minute then have that 20x after. if that was done in a rap batttle it would be seen as insane and instantly get you 30d but its standard in grime, because the point here is danceability and getting the crowd excited and moving. A lot of the actual bars here are objectively elementary for the time and its for that reason.
you see the difference here? in battle rap the flow is optional, its purely your bars, your entendres, your disrespect, the hard hitting content. if you performed like a battle rapper in a grime clash you would get boo'd off stage, same with if you performed like a grime rapper in a rap battle, they would be like why the f*** is this guy just saying the same basic s*** over and over?
- Jul 11, 2025·2 repliesAndre Jaquet· edited
he says around here 30x in the first minute then have that 20x after. if that was done in a rap batttle it would be seen as insane and instantly get you 30d but its standard in grime, because the point here is danceability and getting the crowd excited and moving. A lot of the actual bars here are objectively elementary for the time and its for that reason.
!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1-z2hxXxKg!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXajqCD8qvEyou see the difference here? in battle rap the flow is optional, its purely your bars, your entendres, your disrespect, the hard hitting content. if you performed like a battle rapper in a grime clash you would get boo'd off stage, same with if you performed like a grime rapper in a rap battle, they would be like why the f*** is this guy just saying the same basic s*** over and over?
Rap evolved from this style of battling but this is what it started as.
- Jul 11, 2025Free YoungBoy
Rap evolved from this style of battling but this is what it started as.
we are talking about clashes vs battle rap why are you shifting goalpsts? no rappers didnt used to spit like grime mcs lol
Jul 11, 2025·1 replyClipse just dropped aoty and y’all in here arguing about skepta and f***ing Joyner Lucas
- Jul 11, 2025·1 replynotbrock
Clipse just dropped aoty and y’all in here arguing about skepta and f***ing Joyner Lucas
It's just one dude with his head shoved so far up his arse and such a desire to be right that he gets absorbed in the most trivial semantics chattin about
- Jul 11, 2025·editedFree YoungBoy
Rap evolved from this style of battling but this is what it started as.
ah i see ur edit now and thats not rly accurate right tho i can see where ur coming from
this is the oldest recording of a rap batle we have
notice how its much slower, its a conceptual lyrical contest, its structure is a long form roasting monologue, audiences are here to catch the punches and the clever moves lyrcally, the bars focus on wordplay, wit, and disses
wiley s durry duggz tho is aggresive, fast, mad rhythmic, with short bursts, mad reptition and repeated hooks, catchphrases and basic threats, and its all about the energy and breakneck flow right. audiences HERE react to the flow, cadence and delivery, its driven by teh CROWD.
who wins the clash is determined by sonics, sound, who wins the rap battle is by punches and wit.
Jul 11, 2025·1 replySmacked VoodooThe point still stands...?
Lmao nobody gives a f*** about Skepta and Joyner Lucas clashing for the reasons I stated above.
More people would care about Skepta and ASAP Rocky clashing because they have a history with one another. Friendly of course, but they've collabed on tracks many times leading to crossover amongst their fanbases. Leading to interest over who really is better between the two.
The average person, unless they're the Logic, Russ, or Hopsin kinda rap fan probably hardly even knows who Joyner Lucas is.
Joyner Lucas is the one who jumped out. Skepta just honoring the art form acknowledging him.
- Jul 11, 2025Smacked Voodoo
The thing that alot of UK rappers fail to understand, is that while they're very impressive rappers from a pure rapping and technical standpoint, oftentimes the rap music itself that they make is pretty ass.
Yes, it is cool the way they find these pockets in order to flow over their production, speaking mostly in regards to grime. But that doesn't change the fact that people (unless they from the UK) aren't tryna hear rap beats that sound like they came from f***in Pac-Man, Donkey Kong, or Street Fighter arcade machines. Though I will give the producers and DJs props for that kinda creativity in their production. I also love video game music so I was able to rock with the 8-bit and 16-bit video game sounding grime beats.
It goes back to the NY Drill vs UK Drill debate. Yes, the UK Drill artists are better technical rappers. But the NY Drill artists sound so much better on that production. It's a reason why AXL was frequently lacing Pop Smoke with heat and why NY took that UK Drill sound and got it really popping
Yes nah NY Drill is pure ass.
you not getting that trash off - Jul 11, 2025Smacked Voodoo
It's just one dude with his head shoved so far up his arse and such a desire to be right that he gets absorbed in the most trivial semantics chattin about
its not semantic dawg im saying an issue with how you were judign the thing ur judging, your cant have a ego this big gang your not even literate enough to read what was said it aint my fault your an ignorant moron who cant handle new views for s*** you dont even know anything about
Jul 11, 2025Diss thread turned discussion
- Jul 11, 2025Babaláwo
Joyner Lucas is the one who jumped out. Skepta just honoring the art form acknowledging him.
Yeah man I said this on the first/second page
