Yeah he was pretty opportunistic. When there was no war, it was time to privatize all the industries and get payouts from the rich to not defend the workers. But during the height of the war the government was deeply entrenched in almost all the businesses. I think he even wrote somewhere that it means little to him either way

Definitely

Just meant when ppl try to pretend Hitler had some left wing economic policy they're wrong since if he could have he'd have never given it a second thought

Chill Greta, chill! Advocating for violence

If you think that socialism can actually be achieved through electoral politics (especially in the global north) you're the one who hasn't done enough research. Bernie isn't a socialist either (at least not one I'd like to associate with)—he's an imperialist social democrat.

Also lmao @ the "you haven't seen real communism in action!" retort. Tell that to all my Russian stepfam who saw their friends and family be killed off by the Czar's pogroms, and would've been killed off themselves were it not for the Bolshevik liberators.

imagine coming into a thread and just admitting youre a nazi

asking in genuine manner as someone who's socialist and believes bernie winning is what any american who strives to at least improve the material conditions in america in the short term should strive for
(cuz yeah i 100% agree we aren't going to see a socialist movement come into place through electoral politics anytime soon)

when you mention him being imperialist (which ive heard in the past) are you moreso referencing his past (the yugoslavia bombing, voting for the war on terror (not sure if you necessarily view that as an imperialist act in it of itself) and i believe he supports drone strikes?) or are you speaking on anything specific in his current foreign policy objectives?

you talking abt the Russian civil war?

Slatt

Good article about his crimes against humanity

t.co/rehVItxECy

His support for imperialism in the past in Yugoslavia, Iraq, Somalia, Libya, Iran etc. is on record. Right now he still holds many views that are perfectly in line with the mainstream imperialist foreign policy establishment: his view that "Assad got to go", his support for Syrian "moderate rebels", his support for sanctions on Russia and North Korea, calling Maduro and even Chavez brutal dictators, insisting on Venezuela accepting so-called "humanitarian aid" from the US, his support for the NED-funded Hong Kong seperatist movement, his opposition to the BDS movement, his vote against the closing down of Guantanamo Bay etc.

And of course he won't put an end to the exploitation of the Global South by US corporations.

But with all that being said, it's obviously better to have this guy in office:

Than to have a president that literally uses the Monroe doctrine by name as a justification for his administration's efforts to overthrow left-wing governments in Latin America.

But we shouldn't hold any illusions about what he represents. Bernie is still a push over when it comes to imperialism. He's not a principled anti-imperialist, there really are no anti-imperialists candidates running, but he is the least hawkish candidate, and it would be a lot better to have a US president that wouldn't have couped Evo Morales.

thanks and yeah i knew about some of this stuff but didn't know about others.

i guess this is the hardest thing about being a socialist involved in american electoral politics. you have to compromise way more on candidates foreign policy than you necessarily do on domestic policies (if you believe people can have improved material conditions under capitalism even if its not ur preferred method) but i guess i do trust bernie to not lead us into needless wars. do wish he'd just say no drone strikes whatsoever.

the answer is to stay out of the democratic party s*** and worry about building a communist party for the purpose of revolution (or at the very least, combatting imperialism).

Why do Americans confuse socialdemocratic ideas with socialism or communism?

Heck I could write communitarianism and they would confuse it with socialism.
Can some American explain please?
Sometimes I get the feeling that they even think the word liberal equals social, when it's a complete different political direction

Find me a viable communist party in America to vote for and i will

But we can't ignore ways to make improvements on people's lives in the meantime cuz the reality is there is no true socialist movement in America so in the meantime we have to compromise with social democrats who are atleast attempting to actually change things and embedding some form of class consciousness

Cuz we're taught government doing stuff is socialism. The term democratic socialism has essentially been coopted by the progressive movement (not that i really have any issue with progressives)

improvements for who exactly? ask an afghani farmer who has his house clapped with a drone which party you should vote for.

we can't prioritize western lives over those in the global south, and this form of labor imperialism is the trap of getting involved with the democratic party. the objective laws of motion that govern capitalism-imperialism dont change based on who is in office and any reforms you may win (though i doubt you ever will even with a party full of Sanders types, the era of viable reformism was destroyed with the rise of neoliberalism) will simply be rolled back at the earliest opportunity, this is why revolution is the only option.

you'd think that the modern day failures of SYRIZA, the Socialist Party of Albania, or the Hollande "socialist" government in France would make it obvious enough that these elections literally dont matter (and Greece is essentially a quasi-colony, so imagine how little an elected "socialist" party would accomplish in the heart of colonization) but I guess people want to continue to play themselves instead of organize for a proletarian revolution while they sit on a throne of dead bodies from the third world

Yes and that's the issue. Nothing we really do is going to give that man his farm back, or do anything to improve his life, short of a global revolution that none of us has any sort of power to spark.

and yes, this is why i agree that if theres ever going to be a socialist state it will be through revolution, but unless each and every one of us ourselves is willing to start that revolution then we can't just give up and do nothing in the mean time, just waiting for it to start. Do I wish I could do something to improve the life of that afghani farmer or the Palestinians being bombed and terrorized? yes, 100%, but sadly as an individual living in a different country my ability to do so is limited. doesn't mean i should ignore an opportunity to do something that may help working people, homeless people, etc., where and how I can.

And how many inroads have you made attempting to organize a proletarian revolution?

who exactly is "doing nothing"? organizing and building a communist party is the opposite of doing nothing.

Where is this communist party?

And that's no disrespect, maybe you've put work in where you're at and organized some amount of people who are committed to inciting or participating in a revolution.

no offense but this is a poor attempt at a "gotcha" moment. if you wanna be desperate and align yourself with the most vile sort of right-wing imperialists for the opportunity at reforms that arent viable anymore than i can't stop you; but ive posted several times in this thread about communist parties in the US. i sat on the central committee of Workers' World Party and have been a member for almost half a decade, so you could start there if you choose, but there's plenty of options; you simply need to be committed to a disciplined long-term struggle in which there are no shortcuts.

most people (and when i say people i mean women, people of color, and oppressed nationalities; not just white dudes who work in IT that might vote for Bernie) are already revolutionary socialists and simply lack the avenues necessary for political expression, organizing them on that basis is the most valid use of your time