Nov 2, 2025·edited
SpiderManHe wrote more on MBDTF than he did on 808s lol, most of the songs have no co-writer credits. Gorgeous does have a Rhymefest credit but he didn't write the entire verse, probably some lines.
That was right around the time when Jay Electronica dropped ‘Exhibit C’ and I remember I said ‘Jay Electronica is the new guy, he’s dope,’ and Ye was real mad, like, ‘What? I’m the guy, I’m the guy’ and he went in and spazzed out on it
https://www.complex.com/music/a/andrew-barber/no-id-tells-all-the-stories-behind-his-classic-records
Him rapping in that 'inauthentic style' was in response to Jay Electronica's come-up and No-ID has even said Ye did the verse in front of him.
We legit have early MBDTF freestyles where he's doing most of the verses.
oh damn word
Ig he just locked in? Lowk was under some false pretenses
Nov 2, 2025Andre JaquetWhen I say this, I mean it’s trying too hard to be perfect. It’s far from perfect. It’s still a classic obv but just my listening experience lol
What I mean is we know Kanye explicitly said he was making that album for people to like him and he made it so it could be seen as a classic, which is fine of course, but the music as a result to me feels
A. Kinda inauthentic I can hear rhymefest spitting every bar of gorgeous I can tell he wrote less on this album
B. Over indulgent and full of itself at times see: hell of a life, blame game, songs being 5+ mins
C. I don’t think it has the very distinct well aged sound of something like 808s or yeezus
D. Kinda melodramatic and it’s trying so hard to be “grand” it gets kinda tiringOther than that, songs like Hell of a life and blame game I just never ever would play like so appalled is a cool beat and all but 6 minutes is insane
5-6 minutes song was the norm back then.
Honestly we need to bring that back.
Nov 2, 20252005 kids be like
Nov 2, 2025
RIZGODSounds like a you problem, album still hits
Nov 2, 2025·2 repliesAndre JaquetCriticisms about “borrowing from white x” are really dumb, ignorant and anti art btw just wanna put that out there imagine being mad at someone pulling influences from music cuz the musician was white wtf lol
Says the prog and metal fan who’s arbitrarily saying a black man’s 5+ minutes songs are “over indulgent”. This post isn’t progressive it’s guilt
- Nov 2, 2025·editedGONE
Says the prog and metal fan who’s arbitrarily saying a black man’s 5+ minutes songs are “over indulgent”. This post isn’t progressive it’s guilt
What
I love a lot of 5+ minute rap songs dawg I love a lot of Kanye’s too I think runaway is incredible still, saint Pablo etc
There’s metal and prog that doesn’t need to be as long as it is too I can’t dislike a singular black man’s 5 minute songs on this ONE album for being too long for what it’s tryna do?? I don’t think so appalled should be 6 minutes I think saint Pablo should be like what
Damn my bad for not being a big fan of the album dawg I just feel like he tries to make every song this grand like moment of climax and it’s trying so hard that I don’t rly enjoy playing it as much anymore it feels a bit overproduced. I didn’t even call it bad it’s not a bad album I said it’s a classic
- Nov 2, 2025GONE
Says the prog and metal fan who’s arbitrarily saying a black man’s 5+ minutes songs are “over indulgent”. This post isn’t progressive it’s guilt
Lol got him
- Nov 2, 2025·1 reply
Isn’t OP an adult nettspend fan
- Nov 2, 2025NGNL
Isn’t OP an adult nettspend fan
he’s ok
He has some good songs
Wouldn’t call myself a fan really he’s not near the top of his class 
Nov 2, 2025·1 replyAndre JaquetHot take I do think Carti has easily MUSIC went thru 4 different versions with thousands of recorded songs and he went to specific remote locations for different visions to try to create the biggest ultimate mixtape he could it’s just effort doesn’t equate to quality levels per se and Carti’s process is a lot more intuitive than Kanye’s and he doesn’t rly do rockist stuff
MUSIC is not maximalist whatsoever
Nov 2, 2025I still love that album and it’s easily top 3 Kanye
- Nov 2, 2025·editedTheFader
MUSIC is not maximalist whatsoever
It was a p hard album to make its sound isn’t maximalist for the most part (other than like, crush south Atlanta baby a few other moments) but maximalism doesn’t equate to effort tho ykwim
Nov 2, 2025RIZGODSounds like a you problem, album still hits
- Nov 2, 2025·1 reply
being scared of trying too hard is a perfect recipe for lackluster music
- Nov 2, 2025·1 replyxxxkiraxxx
being scared of trying too hard is a perfect recipe for lackluster music
I don’t think u should be scared of trying too hard at all!
- Nov 2, 2025Andre Jaquet
I don’t think u should be scared of trying too hard at all!
- Nov 2, 2025
vayla@op i didn’t read 15 pages but thoughts on Gorgeous?
It’s a good song Kanye’s verses is probably his most lyrical oat
Its still a good album just like doesn’t hit for me like it used to, my criticisms are mostly personally trying to articulate why I never play it and I don’t feel much when I do for a lot of it 
Nov 2, 2025·2 repliesIt’s a hit or miss for me. A lot of the songs on there sound dated af.
Said it before and niggas were mad at me on here- Nov 2, 2025·1 replySyIIabIes
It’s a hit or miss for me. A lot of the songs on there sound dated af.
Said it before and niggas were mad at me on herewhy r they getting so mad ab dis bru mans can’t be LUKEWARM on an album
- Nov 2, 2025Andre Jaquet
why r they getting so mad ab dis bru mans can’t be LUKEWARM on an album
Site name lmao
Only 5 songs on there are still good to me 
Nov 2, 2025
FreightCompletely agree about it trying too hard to be perfect. Came to the realization a few years back that it just feels soulless to me
which songs give u this feeling?
- Nov 2, 2025·1 replyAndre Jaquet
When I say this, I mean it’s trying too hard to be perfect. It’s far from perfect. It’s still a classic obv but just my listening experience lol
What I mean is we know Kanye explicitly said he was making that album for people to like him and he made it so it could be seen as a classic, which is fine of course, but the music as a result to me feels
A. Kinda inauthentic I can hear rhymefest spitting every bar of gorgeous I can tell he wrote less on this album
B. Over indulgent and full of itself at times see: hell of a life, blame game, songs being 5+ mins
C. I don’t think it has the very distinct well aged sound of something like 808s or yeezus
D. Kinda melodramatic and it’s trying so hard to be “grand” it gets kinda tiringOther than that, songs like Hell of a life and blame game I just never ever would play like so appalled is a cool beat and all but 6 minutes is insane
do u feel the same in regards to rhymefest writing for TCD
SABMAN TURNT 🧔🏻Nov 2, 2025·3 replies
NoirI don't get this at all. It sounds rough at times. The album is super blown out and compressed with a ton of digital distortion from the mastering process. Graduation and Late Registration are far more polished. You mean it has too many layers and overdubs? That it's overproduced?
no
flaws in art are part of the humanity of it
MBDTF feels like a work of art that tried to get ahead of criticism by covering up its flaws & trying to be uncriticizable in a way, if that makes sense. like you can tell Kanye had critics in mind when editing the tracks, rather than focusing on other aspects of the music.